An Argument on Eating Habbits - Vedang

My friend Jitesh is a Jain. A practicing Jain. This means that he is strictly vegetarian and abhors all things non-veg. Recently I've been having a rather interesting mail conversation with him. And because I think it's entertaining, I've put up the salient points.

This entire episode started over a mail that had a few funny pictures in it.

So here's how the conversation went

jitesh: i deleted it as soon i saw the 1st pic ...
DISGUSTING it is ...

vedang:the truth is, it is just as cruel to eat plants as it is to eat animals...
so might as well give in and eat animals. :D

dnt get me started on this ... wanna argue over what is cruel and what is not?
(and "eat animals" is not a joke in any context)

V: hehe... it all depends on the perception buddy... plants are just as alive as anything else. It's just a way of life, living things eat other living things. You just have to have a flexible mindset.

J: its not just about "living things" as a whole. consider the classification : one sensed to 5 sensed (5 classes). the single sensed organisms have only one sense . namely skin and the 5 sensed are completely developed beings with all 5 senses. now ... the nervous system is present only in beings havin more than one sense ... so they can feel the pain!!
also, animals exhibit a social behaviour .. the bonds of love... if u kill a calf, its tantamount to killing a child in front of her mother ... plants don't have any such connections ... also plants are single-sensed.
secondly, it is impossible to survive without killing organisms (eg. when u breathe, the heat from ur body constantly kills the organisms in the air)
so, a way out is .. trying to MINIMIZE the pain we inflict upon others ... so, we restrict ourselves to only single sensed organisms ... and even then, we should restrict ourselves to the bare minimum ... only consume whateva is reqd for survival !! is it k?

V: it has been proved in various studies that plants DO FEEL PAIN... pain is nothing but a reaction to stimulus. It has been adequately proved that plants are just as responsive as any other living thing. There are even plants that eat other animals, (eg pitcher plants, flypaper traps) which shows a high degree of development.

And as for the "MINIMIZE the pain" thing, this is a typically flawed point of view. Humans are different from animals. We put forward this argument that why kill animals when we can survive on plants? This is flawed. Everywhere in nature we see that one kind preys on another. There is no malice in this.

Man, her last work, who seem'd so fair,
Such splendid purpose in his eyes,
Who roll'd the psalm to wintry skies,
Who built him fanes of fruitless prayer,

Who trusted God was love indeed
And love Creation's final law --
Tho' Nature, red in tooth and claw
With ravine, shriek'd against his creed --

this is a part of a poem by alfred lord tennyson. The highlighted phrase is very famous, you might know of it. it says that nature does not understand emotions. As opposed to contrary belief, many animals prey just for "practice", and not necessarily when they are hungry.

J: dude .. there's a difference betn responsiveness and "Feeling the pain" .. u can feel the pain only when u have an active nervous system ... and for having an active nervous system . there shld b central controller .. namely the BRAIN ... and plants lack both !!! responsiveness is NOT the same as FEELING THE PAIN.

V: strictly speaking FEEL is an entirely human emotion. As for a central controller ("BRAIN"), chicken don't have it either. So, I dont see why you should have a problem eating chicken.

J: btw ... i am not trying u to persuade being a veggie ... but isn't this issue worth thinkin upon?

V: certainly. I'm not asking you to try non-veg. I'm asking you to try veg when other people are trying non-veg.

J: have u ever visited a slaughter house? the hens/goats waiting to be slaughtered, their kin are killed in front of them ... do u know what it is to be like waiting in the queue to be slaughtered? ... seeing ur mother/siblings being killed in front of u? .... nd taht too so that we can have some fun!

V: I'm not having fun! I'm satisfying my hunger.

J: isn't that sad? give a thot dude ... if u have even a little mercy left in u ... u'll atleast think twice before goin for a chicken jumbo in BK the next time ...

V: i have never visited a slaughter house. If i do, i certainly wont be able to eat non-veg for a few days. But this only proves that I'm human and have feelings. Many animals are not like this, for example cats kill their own young. Non veg is healthy and nourishing and certainly deserves to be tried.

J: i dnt understand y u compare man with "other" animals...

V: then wot should i compare man to? plants?

J: we r different because we have compassion!
can u imagine a lion having compassion for a deer?

V: I cant imagine man having compassion for a deer either.

J: can he survive on plants?

V: man is not a carnivore, hyenas can survive on plants, yet they also hunt prey at times.

J: can't we do our bit not to hurt others?

V: sure we can, we always feel for others. But meat cooked and served on a plate is nothing other than food.

J: is ur alibi of eating non-veg so weak?

V: actually, i dont think its weak at all.

J: others eat non-veg .. so u too eat?

V: I never said this. I eat nonveg only because I like too. I'm not concerned with others.

J: satisfying ur hunger, lol.. rn't there others ways? ... is it necesasry to resort to such merciless way of satisfying ur hunger?

V: sure there are, but at that time i was hungry for chicken, not spinach. I'm also hungry for spinach often, at which times i dont think of eating chicken.

J: tell me how are u different from other animals? .. what makes u a human .. and NOT a cat or just another animal? .... the cat has no qualms killing her offsprings .. so even i wnt show any mercy.

V: i never said anything about mercy. i dont see where mercy even comes in the picture. If you are really so concerned, you should stop using leather, stop drinking milk, stop using plastic (because discarded plastic chokes the poor herbivores who try to eat it), stop eating plants (the herbivores need to eat them), stop deforestation (ur stealing their homes), stop using cars (god knows how many dogs die everyday), stop reproducing (this is the root of all the problems), infact stop everything, because one way or the other you'll affect someone.

J: y dnt u give the example of the herbivores who wnt hurt an animal? y dnt u give examples from our human race itself ?

V: There are countless people in this world whose main diet is meat. Infact there are more non-veg eaters than strict vegetarians.
I think you are shifting from the main point. The point was that plants are just as alive as animals. I don't have any intention of convincing you that I'm right, or that you shouldn't eat plants. I was just making a simple statement. Plants have been here long before us, and they will most probably be here long after us. The issue of "mercy", "pain" or any such thing should not come into the picture at all.

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The reason i enjoy arguing with Jitesh is that he is just as stubborn as I am. This argument will go on I'm sure, but I'd like to invite you to give us your opinion too. I'm sure most of you will be in favor of vegetarianism, coz thts the fashionable thing to do... but see if you can back it up with any logic!
I hope this is cogent enough for you, because this is my final word on this argument. There really is no point to discussion when both parties refuse to budge from their stands.
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